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> <channel><title>Comments on: Android Dalvik VM performance is a threat to the iPhone</title> <atom:link href="http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/</link> <description>Rants about Java and other internet technologies by Sam Pullara</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:14:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator> <item><title>By: Copland 위기, 다시 올 수 있다</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1241</link> <dc:creator>Copland 위기, 다시 올 수 있다</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:42:21 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1241</guid> <description>[...] 중 하나가 이것이다. 그리고 구글의 최신 안드로이드 판을 보면, 구글은 실수를 저지르지 않았다. don&#8217;t-call-it-Java인 Dalvik 가상머신은 꽤잘하고 있다. (레지스터-기반의 [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 중 하나가 이것이다. 그리고 구글의 최신 안드로이드 판을 보면, 구글은 실수를 저지르지 않았다. don&#8217;t-call-it-Java인 Dalvik 가상머신은 꽤잘하고 있다. (레지스터-기반의 [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: sam</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1202</link> <dc:creator>sam</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 22:37:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1202</guid> <description>Yeah this &quot;poor Java developer&quot; makes a shitload of money writing Java and that won&#039;t change for a very long time.  In fact, I&#039;d bet I make more as a &quot;poor Java developer&quot; than just about any staff iPhone dev out there.  All this and Java is going nowhere.  It&#039;s still dominates the market and will for decades to come.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Finally, Java may suck as a language but so does Obj-C.  Looking at O-C code is like looking into a code museum.  So spare me.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah this &#8220;poor Java developer&#8221; makes a shitload of money writing Java and that won&#39;t change for a very long time.  In fact, I&#39;d bet I make more as a &#8220;poor Java developer&#8221; than just about any staff iPhone dev out there.  All this and Java is going nowhere.  It&#39;s still dominates the market and will for decades to come.</p><p>Finally, Java may suck as a language but so does Obj-C.  Looking at O-C code is like looking into a code museum.  So spare me.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Android vs. iPhone Performance &#124; Mobile App Testing</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1197</link> <dc:creator>Android vs. iPhone Performance &#124; Mobile App Testing</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 19:48:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1197</guid> <description>[...] So people are saying that Android is slow, right? Actually, no. In fact, Java has been optimized so extensively in the past 10 years that its performance is now incredibly fast. Dalvik has been optimized even further for mobile devices, so Android is one fast platform. What people are actually saying is that the iPhone is slow. [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So people are saying that Android is slow, right? Actually, no. In fact, Java has been optimized so extensively in the past 10 years that its performance is now incredibly fast. Dalvik has been optimized even further for mobile devices, so Android is one fast platform. What people are actually saying is that the iPhone is slow. [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Android vs. iPhone Performance &#124; Software Testing Blog</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1196</link> <dc:creator>Android vs. iPhone Performance &#124; Software Testing Blog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 19:40:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1196</guid> <description>[...] So people are saying that Android is slow, right?  Actually, no.  In fact, Java has been optimized so extensively in the past 10 years that its performance is now incredibly fast.  Dalvik has been optimized even further for mobile devices, so Android is one fast platform. What people are actually saying is that the iPhone is slow. [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So people are saying that Android is slow, right?  Actually, no.  In fact, Java has been optimized so extensively in the past 10 years that its performance is now incredibly fast.  Dalvik has been optimized even further for mobile devices, so Android is one fast platform. What people are actually saying is that the iPhone is slow. [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Martin Pilkington</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1200</link> <dc:creator>Martin Pilkington</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 16:34:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1200</guid> <description>It is wrong to suggest that you have to be a fanboy to like Objective-C. I can see several flaws in Objective-C and things that annoy me a lot. However, it is an incredibly powerful language. The dynamic dispatch isn&#039;t bolted onto C, it is a runtime build with C. It is no more bolted on than stdio is bolted onto C.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now for some, including me, Objective-C *is* a lot easier to read and a lot cleaner. You can more easily see nesting thanks to the square brackets, you have interspersed arguments which makes methods far more self documenting and you can do more in less code thanks to the dynamic dispatch.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The issue is, you are complaining about Obj-C being &quot;slow&quot; because of dynamic dispatch. I can show you 100s of Obj-C apps that run perfectly fine despite dynamic dispatch and 100s of Java apps that run slow even with the static method calling. Hell, have you tried an Android phone and iPhone side by side? It is ridiculous how slow the Android is in comparison at times, yet it is selling reasonably well. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The fact is that these things are largely irrelevant and the majority of performance problems come from APIs or just bad code. The largely insignificant runtime cost of dynamic dispatch is more than made up for by the very significant savings in development time that a dynamic language affords you. Users don&#039;t care about invisible speed issues, they care about real speed issues. Developers don&#039;t care about getting every last little bit out of their code, they care about writing less code, faster. This is why we write in Objective-C, C, Ruby, Python, C# and even Java instead of Assembly. About the only time you *really* need to drop down to C and where Obj-C is &quot;slow&quot; is when you need realtime processing, such as audio, in which case almost anything bar C is likely to be too slow and sometimes C itself can be.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is wrong to suggest that you have to be a fanboy to like Objective-C. I can see several flaws in Objective-C and things that annoy me a lot. However, it is an incredibly powerful language. The dynamic dispatch isn&#39;t bolted onto C, it is a runtime build with C. It is no more bolted on than stdio is bolted onto C.</p><p>Now for some, including me, Objective-C *is* a lot easier to read and a lot cleaner. You can more easily see nesting thanks to the square brackets, you have interspersed arguments which makes methods far more self documenting and you can do more in less code thanks to the dynamic dispatch.</p><p>The issue is, you are complaining about Obj-C being &#8220;slow&#8221; because of dynamic dispatch. I can show you 100s of Obj-C apps that run perfectly fine despite dynamic dispatch and 100s of Java apps that run slow even with the static method calling. Hell, have you tried an Android phone and iPhone side by side? It is ridiculous how slow the Android is in comparison at times, yet it is selling reasonably well.</p><p>The fact is that these things are largely irrelevant and the majority of performance problems come from APIs or just bad code. The largely insignificant runtime cost of dynamic dispatch is more than made up for by the very significant savings in development time that a dynamic language affords you. Users don&#39;t care about invisible speed issues, they care about real speed issues. Developers don&#39;t care about getting every last little bit out of their code, they care about writing less code, faster. This is why we write in Objective-C, C, Ruby, Python, C# and even Java instead of Assembly. About the only time you *really* need to drop down to C and where Obj-C is &#8220;slow&#8221; is when you need realtime processing, such as audio, in which case almost anything bar C is likely to be too slow and sometimes C itself can be.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ken Kinder</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1198</link> <dc:creator>Ken Kinder</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 12:47:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1198</guid> <description>Performance aside, you mention that a lot of developers already know Java and that puts them in a position to develop for Android. Unfortunately, that&#039;s only sort of true. While Android uses the Java language, even the more basic Java libraries are missing and replaced with Google ones. All those Java developers who trained for Sun&#039;s idea of Java are going to have to relearn everything but the language itself.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Performance aside, you mention that a lot of developers already know Java and that puts them in a position to develop for Android. Unfortunately, that&#39;s only sort of true. While Android uses the Java language, even the more basic Java libraries are missing and replaced with Google ones. All those Java developers who trained for Sun&#39;s idea of Java are going to have to relearn everything but the language itself.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chris Saari</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1199</link> <dc:creator>Chris Saari</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 10:31:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1199</guid> <description>Posted my thoughts here:&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.chrissaari.com/2010/05/27/the-traffic-cop-pattern-or-why-java-vs-obj-c-isnt-really-that-important/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://blog.chrissaari.com/2010/05/27/the-traff...&lt;/a&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Posted my thoughts here:<br
/><a
href="http://blog.chrissaari.com/2010/05/27/the-traffic-cop-pattern-or-why-java-vs-obj-c-isnt-really-that-important/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.chrissaari.com/2010/05/27/the-traff&#8230;</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Steven</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1203</link> <dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 06:32:40 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1203</guid> <description>Just out of curiosity?  Do you like uneducated people as well?  A single space after a period/full stop simply looks annoying.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just out of curiosity?  Do you like uneducated people as well?  A single space after a period/full stop simply looks annoying.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Pieter</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1201</link> <dc:creator>Pieter</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 04:06:30 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1201</guid> <description>I don&#039;t believe the 12G invocations per second you claim for java, I think you have been had by your JIT compiler.&lt;br&gt;I do believe the 116M invocations per second for Objective C...&lt;br&gt;See my comment on Stefan&#039;s site...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t believe the 12G invocations per second you claim for java, I think you have been had by your JIT compiler.<br
/>I do believe the 116M invocations per second for Objective C&#8230;<br
/>See my comment on Stefan&#39;s site&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Pieter</title><link>http://www.javarants.com/2010/05/26/android-dalvik-vm-performance-is-a-threat-to-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-1204</link> <dc:creator>Pieter</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 04:02:30 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.javarants.com/?p=1311#comment-1204</guid> <description>If performance matters, Dalvik is doomed. There will always be a penalty for byte code. Either due to to interpretation itself costing time or due to performing JIT, itself costing time, forcing bookkeeping and taking memory for the compiled code that could otherwise be used for caches or just keeping a larger working set in memory.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Separate from that, I think you misunderstand the amount of function calls done using the objc_msgSend system in a real application.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If performance matters, Dalvik is doomed. There will always be a penalty for byte code. Either due to to interpretation itself costing time or due to performing JIT, itself costing time, forcing bookkeeping and taking memory for the compiled code that could otherwise be used for caches or just keeping a larger working set in memory.</p><p>Separate from that, I think you misunderstand the amount of function calls done using the objc_msgSend system in a real application.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
